Monday, February 05, 2007

A secular rationalist's argument for God.

This comes from someone going by the moniker "I'm Unemployed" in the Megatokyo forums, posted three years ago (and still extant!)

"Yes there is. It can be reached by following these steps (to specify, "God" is defined as a necessary, non-physical entity in the following argument and "universe" is specified as the total sum of all physical existence [everything us mortals know and are capable of observing]). Also note that when I say "utter nothingness" I am talking about a nothingness spanning any and all planes of existence:

1) It is logically unsound to believe that the universe is a perpetually existing object since all we know of our plane of existence is comprised only of contingent substances, beings and objects. To refute this would nullify any arguments you have about there not being evidence supporting God, since both are complete unknowns and your decisions are being based upon what you know of the situation.

2) Thus, the universe must have a definite beginning.

3) If the universe has a definite beginning, then you will reach one of two ultimate conclusions: there was once utter nothingness, or God created the universe. Even if you believe in the Big Bang, that small collection of matter had to have been given rise by something else, since nothing physical is necessary. Also note that outside the collection of matter would, technically, be nothingness, so nothing could exist outside of the collection of matter (no matter, no physical phenomena, etc).

4) It is logically unsound to believe in utter nothingness, since it is impossible for something to be created by nothing. From nothing, nothing comes. If there were once utter nothingness, then nothingness would still exist.

5) Thus, it is logical to believe that a necessary, non-physical entity exists."


Matt of CG said...

Whoo hooo! That was a gimme! Sniff, I smell the "unmovable mover?" St. Thomas Aquinas the Aristotle Lover strikes again! Ha ha, I felt intelligable for about two seconds! Thanks for that one, Jeff.

Matt of CG said...

I got that one from Fr. Juan's catechism class last year or so.

Matt of CG said...

Did I forget to mention that I have an aversion towards reading? This may have already been made painfully appearant due to my lack of literary citation in my responses to your blog.

And for that, I'm sorry. There are days when I feel like I should step it up and become more intellectually relevant through the actual reading of books.

Danny Vega said...

hey Jeff what's up? Logical arguments for God are pretty interesting, do you think they have any real validity though? I recently read the God Delusion and ostensibly Dawkins, the author, knocks these arguments out. Even if it is valid, what practical repercussion does this have? Why not call such a "God" nature? You da man, Jeff.

Matt of CG said...

Hey Danny, start scouring through some of his old blogs from last year. I think he answered your questions already without your asking them. I can't remember any specific blog titles so you'll just have to dig.